Ramsey is right about what she should do, but for the wrong reasons. If the guy is willing to keep her in a relationship but isn't willing to commit until the debt is paid, that bespeaks a certain weakness of will. He should either fish or cut bait--ditch her because her judgment and money management is poor, or marry her because she's either A. learned from her mistakes or B. her positive character qualities outweigh her negative qualities. The kind of relationship limbo being talked about here might be okay for a couple of months, but this would take *years* to deal with, and he's wasting both their times.
If I called in to Ramsey with $90k in student loans the response would be different than what this young woman got. My wife and I discussed finances before we got married. A $90k student loan debt would have been an issue for both of us.
This Ramsey clip could be used for any piece of advice from influencers, family, friends, or anyone: The advice you receive may be well meaning, but not necessarily in your best interest. You have to decide!
Re: Ted Turner
He was not in the limelight in recent years. In the 80’s and 90’s, he was one of the biggest names in American business and culture. 24-hour news channels, cable channels with entertainment punch, and the Atlanta Braves as a powerhouse franchise with a large fanbase all exist because of him. His ownership of WCW competing against Vince McMahon’s WWF in the 90’s was a big part of the culture then, putting up huge TV ratings and packing arenas around the country. Nashville and Charlotte have been the boom towns in the southeast in recent years. A generation ago, it was Atlanta. Ted Turner was a big part of that.
I spent part of my childhood in Atlanta, and Ted Turner was indeed an important figure, but he sold his empire to Warner a long time ago. He has been out of the game for fully 20 years, since he was in his 60s.
In this regard Turner was the opposite of the Boomer who can never bring himself to leave the game: one of Aaron's themes! E.g. Turner's longtime rival Rupert Murdoch, who was still running News Corp into his 90s.
Though for this reason -- his being out of the game so long -- when we learned Turner died, my wife and I looked at each other and admitted we both thought he had already been dead for 10+ years.
Ramsey's advice actually IS correct, even if his entire worldview here is wrong. Yes, this girl should dump her boyfriend. Also, her boyfriend should dump her. They are both wasting each other's time.
I know, because I wasted far too much time in a similar situation, with a girl that was several years younger than me. She was in many ways a good and devoted companion, but I spent years waiting for her to grow up and become someone I was comfortable would pull her own weight as we built a family together. We never got there. When we finally broke up in the end (which was largely mutual, even if I pulled the trigger), she saw it as finally realizing she would "never be good enough for me." Her words, not mine.
The sad part is that she, to my knowledge, never married and never really came anywhere close; I wasted the proverbial "best years of her life." I married later than I would have liked to, but as an upwardly mobile man, the dating market was much kinder to me in my 30s than it was to her.
I tend to think that, if she had spent her 20s with a man who was a little closer to her level, her odds of being married would be much higher. In fact, this was apparently the situation she grew up in: her parents were both financial basket cases from what I could gather, but they stayed married through the ups and downs.
One of the few things my first wife and I got right (which is why she's my first wife, not my only wife) is that we agreed to enter our marriage debt free. With an asterisk: I would have two years left on paying my student loans. That was the one exception, and we made it because the interest rate was next to nothing. We both worked very hard to get out of our other debts before we stood in front of the preacher. It was a very good call.
I subscribed after reading your article on what "servant leadership" has become. Fathers and Churches have long be reluctant to hold women accountable (I said the thing), and it has lead to an assumption that every girl is worth marrying by default. They are not. And it's not just virtues or financial; being a debt free virgin doesn't help much if a guy doesn't want to walk down the street holding your hand cause of how you look. And a man is not "shallow" or "worldly" or "un Christ like" for wanting a beautiful woman who has some years of high fertility left
Everyone will be better off if they focused on being the ideal partner they could instead of bemoaning the short comings of the other sex, but that's a whole lot less fun.
Re: And a man is not "shallow" or "worldly" or "un Christ like" for wanting a beautiful woman who has some years of high fertility left
That needs to be amended slightly. Most of us will not be dating or marrying beauty queens or movie stars-- we are not such ourselves. However people should try to look their best within the limits that nature has given them. Too many people these days seem to deliberately uglify themselves.
I think a woman can be beautiful to a man without being in the top echelon of beauty, but I don't want to get lost in semantics.
I agree people should play the hand they are dealt to the best of their abilities, and yes people seem to uglify themselves, to spite the world of the opposite sex or something. I noticed the reaction if very different if a woman is told to lose weight for her own sake, versus lose weight for her man. The humility to change yourself for your husband/future husband seems like a heresy among so many women today (modern women if you will)
Re: the modern world desires to explicitly transgress or profane old religious standards and values.
The "modern world" is an abstraction- useful in language of course, but it's not a real entity. It does not have volition or desires or awareness. It's (some) individual humans who make the choices noted in the article.
Re: While I don’t recommend pre-marital cohabitation, he’s letting her live with him for free so that she can devote the majority of her income to paying down debt.
My sister had a boyfriend with lots of debts. She refused to marry him because she did not want to risk her income or assets in the event of his bankruptcy. They did live together. Maybe we need a tweak to the laws so that debt brought into a marriage is not incumbent in any way upon the spouse who did not incur it.
Re: And we’ve got a decline in fertility, and our government’s spending 5:1 on a per capita basis on the elderly to kids
A question: is that considering just Federal spending or spending at all levels. The figure should be the latter to be truly accurate and comprehensive.
Re: But the income that we redistribute to the elderly,
Er, um, that income is paid for by their (and their past employers') Social Security contributions.
Re: Our child poverty rates are high, and there are very, very long-term consequences of child poverty.
Yes, and we had a program for a short while which was making inroads into that problem-- the Pandemic child tax credit. Which the GOP fell all over itself to eliminate so as to make way for yet another round of huge tax cuts.The tension is not (and should not be) young against old; it should be the great mass of us vs the owning class. That's where all the money of the last 40-50 years has gone.
Ramsey is right about what she should do, but for the wrong reasons. If the guy is willing to keep her in a relationship but isn't willing to commit until the debt is paid, that bespeaks a certain weakness of will. He should either fish or cut bait--ditch her because her judgment and money management is poor, or marry her because she's either A. learned from her mistakes or B. her positive character qualities outweigh her negative qualities. The kind of relationship limbo being talked about here might be okay for a couple of months, but this would take *years* to deal with, and he's wasting both their times.
Re: Ramsey
If I called in to Ramsey with $90k in student loans the response would be different than what this young woman got. My wife and I discussed finances before we got married. A $90k student loan debt would have been an issue for both of us.
This Ramsey clip could be used for any piece of advice from influencers, family, friends, or anyone: The advice you receive may be well meaning, but not necessarily in your best interest. You have to decide!
Re: Ted Turner
He was not in the limelight in recent years. In the 80’s and 90’s, he was one of the biggest names in American business and culture. 24-hour news channels, cable channels with entertainment punch, and the Atlanta Braves as a powerhouse franchise with a large fanbase all exist because of him. His ownership of WCW competing against Vince McMahon’s WWF in the 90’s was a big part of the culture then, putting up huge TV ratings and packing arenas around the country. Nashville and Charlotte have been the boom towns in the southeast in recent years. A generation ago, it was Atlanta. Ted Turner was a big part of that.
I spent part of my childhood in Atlanta, and Ted Turner was indeed an important figure, but he sold his empire to Warner a long time ago. He has been out of the game for fully 20 years, since he was in his 60s.
In this regard Turner was the opposite of the Boomer who can never bring himself to leave the game: one of Aaron's themes! E.g. Turner's longtime rival Rupert Murdoch, who was still running News Corp into his 90s.
Though for this reason -- his being out of the game so long -- when we learned Turner died, my wife and I looked at each other and admitted we both thought he had already been dead for 10+ years.
Good digest this week.
Ramsey's advice actually IS correct, even if his entire worldview here is wrong. Yes, this girl should dump her boyfriend. Also, her boyfriend should dump her. They are both wasting each other's time.
I know, because I wasted far too much time in a similar situation, with a girl that was several years younger than me. She was in many ways a good and devoted companion, but I spent years waiting for her to grow up and become someone I was comfortable would pull her own weight as we built a family together. We never got there. When we finally broke up in the end (which was largely mutual, even if I pulled the trigger), she saw it as finally realizing she would "never be good enough for me." Her words, not mine.
The sad part is that she, to my knowledge, never married and never really came anywhere close; I wasted the proverbial "best years of her life." I married later than I would have liked to, but as an upwardly mobile man, the dating market was much kinder to me in my 30s than it was to her.
I tend to think that, if she had spent her 20s with a man who was a little closer to her level, her odds of being married would be much higher. In fact, this was apparently the situation she grew up in: her parents were both financial basket cases from what I could gather, but they stayed married through the ups and downs.
One of the few things my first wife and I got right (which is why she's my first wife, not my only wife) is that we agreed to enter our marriage debt free. With an asterisk: I would have two years left on paying my student loans. That was the one exception, and we made it because the interest rate was next to nothing. We both worked very hard to get out of our other debts before we stood in front of the preacher. It was a very good call.
Another banger Aaron.
I subscribed after reading your article on what "servant leadership" has become. Fathers and Churches have long be reluctant to hold women accountable (I said the thing), and it has lead to an assumption that every girl is worth marrying by default. They are not. And it's not just virtues or financial; being a debt free virgin doesn't help much if a guy doesn't want to walk down the street holding your hand cause of how you look. And a man is not "shallow" or "worldly" or "un Christ like" for wanting a beautiful woman who has some years of high fertility left
Everyone will be better off if they focused on being the ideal partner they could instead of bemoaning the short comings of the other sex, but that's a whole lot less fun.
Re: And a man is not "shallow" or "worldly" or "un Christ like" for wanting a beautiful woman who has some years of high fertility left
That needs to be amended slightly. Most of us will not be dating or marrying beauty queens or movie stars-- we are not such ourselves. However people should try to look their best within the limits that nature has given them. Too many people these days seem to deliberately uglify themselves.
I think a woman can be beautiful to a man without being in the top echelon of beauty, but I don't want to get lost in semantics.
I agree people should play the hand they are dealt to the best of their abilities, and yes people seem to uglify themselves, to spite the world of the opposite sex or something. I noticed the reaction if very different if a woman is told to lose weight for her own sake, versus lose weight for her man. The humility to change yourself for your husband/future husband seems like a heresy among so many women today (modern women if you will)
My comment was not just abiut women . Men let themselves go and sometimes slobify themselves.
Indeed, and telling them to get it together you're letting your wife down is so much more acceptable than the reserve.
Re: the modern world desires to explicitly transgress or profane old religious standards and values.
The "modern world" is an abstraction- useful in language of course, but it's not a real entity. It does not have volition or desires or awareness. It's (some) individual humans who make the choices noted in the article.
Re: While I don’t recommend pre-marital cohabitation, he’s letting her live with him for free so that she can devote the majority of her income to paying down debt.
My sister had a boyfriend with lots of debts. She refused to marry him because she did not want to risk her income or assets in the event of his bankruptcy. They did live together. Maybe we need a tweak to the laws so that debt brought into a marriage is not incumbent in any way upon the spouse who did not incur it.
Re: And we’ve got a decline in fertility, and our government’s spending 5:1 on a per capita basis on the elderly to kids
A question: is that considering just Federal spending or spending at all levels. The figure should be the latter to be truly accurate and comprehensive.
Re: But the income that we redistribute to the elderly,
Er, um, that income is paid for by their (and their past employers') Social Security contributions.
Re: Our child poverty rates are high, and there are very, very long-term consequences of child poverty.
Yes, and we had a program for a short while which was making inroads into that problem-- the Pandemic child tax credit. Which the GOP fell all over itself to eliminate so as to make way for yet another round of huge tax cuts.The tension is not (and should not be) young against old; it should be the great mass of us vs the owning class. That's where all the money of the last 40-50 years has gone.
"Er, um, that income is paid for by their (and their past employers') Social Security contributions."
You forgot the /sarc tag, right?
No, that is how the system works.