Ok, a general comment. Maybe I'm obtuse (because I'm a Boomer?) but I still don't understand what is this Boomer world that you are all living in?
Because I don't recognize this world right now. I don't understand how abortion has gone from being a tragedy to being a sacrament. I don't understand how a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. I don't understand why Israel, and only Israel, should not be permitted to defend itself against atrocities. I don't understand why we no longer understand the Russian threat. I don't understand why antisemitism has again reared its ugly head. I don't understand the racism and sexism of DEI. I don't understand the entitlement of kids who graduate from college expecting top salaries and a corner office. I don't understand cryptocurrency.
I asked for examples and what I got was a list of grievances with no evidence: that we did something bad to music, that we are serial killers and cultists and are now responsible for school shootings, and that we are narcissists. I've already admitted to staying too long at the dance, but did we push you away or did you fail to step up? I don't know the answer, I'm not accusing, I'm just asking the question that you didn't address.
You know, in order to understand the Greatest Generation, you need to understand the world wars. In order to understand the Boomers, you need to understand Vietnam and the Kennedy assassinations (yup, there were two), and the MLK assassination.
Go and read memoirs by Vietnam vets. Go and read about the orphans and widows. Go and read about the reception the returning vets got when they came home. Go and read about the lies we were told. Every generation has its trauma. We were not exempt and you are not exempt.
My husband abused me, left us, and outright refused to see his kids. Yet my daughter worships him and blames me. And now he has died and she blames me because she never got to know him (she is 50 years old). I understand this, I really do. First, it is safe to blame me, because am here and won't leave (until I die). Second, when you are the parent who has left, you have done a big, bad thing, but it's only one thing. If you're the parent who is there, you get to make mistakes every. single. day.
So please, give me specific examples of how this is the Boomers' world that you are only living in, but that we will get our comeuppance when you reject us and create your own world. News flash, we will be dead and we won't care.
And then keep a copy so you can refer to it when your own children blame you.
I'm not as negative about these demographic changes as many are. The new immigrants will be absorbed into the dominant culture just as the offspring of Ellis Island were through assimilation and intermarriage.
We're blessed to have so many high achieving immigrants from countries like India and China, as well as people like Elon Musk. There are downsides to diversity for sure and we need to enforce our immigration laws, but it's a positive for ecoomic growth.
There's a lot I could comment on in this piece, the effects of the Boomers has been a fascination of mine, ever since I was a small child and watched my dad fret, after my oldest sister ran off to California. She was anti-war but wore an army jacket. From the beginning, none of this has ever quite made sense.
Us late-cohort Boomers had a very different experience than the earlier ones. I get what Mary Jo is saying, she's about a decade older than me and she's telling it how it was for her cohort. While it doesn't quite fit the 1946-64 official period, this is the best division of the Boomer generation I've found, based on year born:
1940-49 College before hippies made it kind of crazy, graduated to a great job market
1950-59 Idyllic childhood, then drugs & Vietnam. Some yuppies prospered but a pretty raw deal for many
1960-64 Society starting to unravel, then economic downturn, Watergate, oil embargoes
Basically, I felt like us late Boomers got to the party right as it was ending, and kept having to clean up messes from the older Boomers. And I still feel like that, as I watch them completely unable to get their act together and run the country.
It's also true they've always been rather self-absorbed, but perhaps it was inevitable, when you grow up in such a huge group of kids. The older Boomers love huge group activities, MAGA is just the latest manifestation, and very much a typical Boomer phenomenon. I always hated crowds.
Nevertheless, to be fair, a lot of them did have problems at home, and then later as young adults, as first the post-WW2 families fractured, and then the society. Some of my earliest memories are of the MLK and RFK assasinations, and the Tet Offensive. That was confusing to a little kid, but the older Boomers were the ones in the middle of that chaos, on campus and in Vietnam.
I agree that there's a big difference between the late Boomers (children of the 70s) and early Boomers (children of the 60s). It's really the early Boomers who have dominated America.
'Basically, I felt like us late Boomers got to the party right as it was ending, and kept having to clean up messes from the older Boomers. And I still feel like that, as I watch them completely unable to get their act together and run the country.'
I get your point but, again, do you have any examples of the late Boomers cleaning up after the early Boomers?
Also, did we exert any force to "cling" to power, or did the next generation fail to rise? As a Boomer, I can't this, but I would like to know your (and others') positions on this. I am as outraged as anyone about the gerontocracy of Congress, but who kept voting them in?
I will say that the current "crop" of young people scares the heck out of me--says almost every old person regardless of generation.
My parents are so old-fashioned and out of touch--says almost every young person regardless of generation.
We will die out, the young will carry on and such is the way of life and it is as it should be.
I just bristle at the charge that somehow we are uniquely the worst.
I wonder if boomers aren't the bridge to the Western World tradition. In many ways it was not passed on to millennials (speaking for my own experience) by boomers. For example in my high school English class in suburban Atlanta in the late 1990's, it was only myself and my boomer teacher who advocated for absolute truth in a class discussion on the nature of truth.
But boomers were also reacting against Western tradition and so much of what was passed on was critical. So what was passed on was the criticism without the tradition. This is part of why they are what is holding back the excesses of modern thought. They were the generation that both received the inheritance of Western tradition, and chose to represent something different. Without that inheritance, what do we have left to stand for in society?
From a societal sense, I am not sure what GenX received. Did they have Western tradition passed to them them to receive? Or did they primarily receive the criticism?
Gen X, at least the older part of the generation like me, also had direct access to pre-Boomer generations, like my grandparents, who were Greatest Generation. So we weren't Boomer dependent for everything.
Re: Yet they created a world in which their own children will be turned into racial minorities.
Careful. White people (minus Hispanics many of whom really do qualify as "white") will remain the plurality of the US population as far out as it makes sense to look. The handwringing over white people becoming a minority strikes me as overwrought for this among other reasons.
It makes a lot more sense when you look at any multi-ethnic society. Keeping society together in those requires things that are very unpalatable to modern Western sensibilities; that order probably won't happen and... well, things worked out alright in the Balkans and Middle East. Right?
Why does he have to be careful about saying something that's true? Also, "Yet they created a world in which their own children will be turned into racial minorities. . . . This demographic change, whether one sees it as positive or negative, will be the determining factor of post-Boomer America." hardly strikes me as handwringing, overwrought or otherwise.
In the US we have solution: we coopt new groups into the white category. I mentioned Hispanic people above. Really there are only two groups that have been kept as outsiders: blacks and Native Americans.
As a 73-year-old Boomer, I agree with much of this, especially the part about Boomers not being able to understand how "anyone could possibly see the world differently from them."
I would have to leave it up to someone else to determine whether I fit the stereotype; but I will say that about 40 years ago, when I was a committed liberal, I started reading columns by conservative writers and I started seeing that we were grappling with the same questions, we just had different answers. But gradually, very gradually, I started seeing things with different eyes to the point where I voted for Biden in 2020 and Trump in 2024 (the trans phenomenon was my breaking point). Also, I've mellowed and I'm not as sure of my absolute rightness as I used to be, even as I argue with my liberal Boomer friends about whether a fetus is a human being.
But I'm a little perplexed at the charge that we still are living in the Boomers' world. Would you have examples?
Bill Clinton. George W. Bush. Donald Trump. Ditto Trump.
Kennedy (b. 1917), Johnson (1908), Nixon (1913), Ford (1913), Carter (1924), Reagan (1911) and George H. W. Bush (1924) were all Greatest Generation, covering the years 1961 through 1992 (31 years). There were 7 presidents from the Greatest Generation.
Clinton, George W., Obama and Trump covered the years from 1993 through 2021 (28 years) followed by four years of Biden (Silent Generation) and Trump is less than a year into his second term. There have been 4 presidents from the Boomer generation.
Three Boomer presidents were born in the same year. Two of the greatest generation presidents were born in 1913 and two were born in 1924.
The next election will be in 2030. The youngest Boomers will be 66, so they will still be viable candidates. The oldest Gen Zs will be 35 and newly eligible.
That's a great ending question. Obviously the presidencies and the style of presidencies is something. But I think, maybe, the best examples are in the arts for his points. There was a sort of romantic (hippie) pop revival in the late 90s-early 00s, but, now, popular music has no sway on people. Same for films etc. You don't just lose that. It's simply not passed on. We're past the era of serial killers and cults, but that, as it culturally was, was very much a boomer relic of culture. Of course now it's mass shootings, it's not a perfect world, but the mindset behind cults and the serial killers was an inability to self regulate and a desire absorb things into one's self. Gen x, with the Anglican church, tried to continue that cultural stream with Nine O'clock Service, but it didn't catch on. There was a change of cultural values post cold war which we see with the pomo schizophrenic it girls and the cybernetics and the politically correct stuff gaining ascendancy.
I'm sure there's a lot which can be noted, but there are some relevant milestones.
"We're past the era of serial killers and cults, but that, as it culturally was, was very much a boomer relic of culture. Of course now it's mass shootings, it's not a perfect world, but the mindset behind cults and the serial killers was an inability to self regulate and a desire absorb things into one's self."
Wow. I understand we have a lot to answer for and that the 60s was a time of self-indulgence. But we are are responsible for serial killers and cults? How do you explain Jack the Ripper? How do you explain the most obvious cult of all: the cult of Naziism and Hitler (yes, I know that going to Hitler is pretty lame, but it does seem appropriate here.)
And you don't really the question. The premise is "This is the Boomers' world and we just live in it." Aaron gave examples (and didn't blame us for serial killers), such as the prevalence of Boomers still running things. I'll accept blame for that, as we left our kids with babysitters while we went out to find fulfillment in the world (I was a single mom with no choice, but to kids the "why" doesn't make any difference, the reality is the same). So many of our kids were left driftless and without solid examples of family or leadership. (Even so, my daughter is an executive in a large corporation and I expect her brilliant kids to surpass her.) Many of weren't ready to lead or run things. But their kids are. What we're seeing now is a youth movement, both left (Mamdani) and right (Charlie Kirk, may he rest in peace).
Or, it could just be that there were so many of us (not our fault) that we would be over-represented in pretty much everything. And I wonder how many of these hanger-ons are the eldest child in their family? Very little is so neatly black and white.
So, do you have a better, more concrete example? I'm open; I'm not looking to tear down, but please, get real.
Do you know the difference between correlation and causation? Do you have evidence that it was the Boomers who caused serial killers and cults? My new friend, Google AI, says the following. Of course, neither Google nor AI are infallible, but at least they point to evidence.
Serial Killers
The peak of serial killer activity was in the U.S. from the 1970s to the 1990s, the period when the Baby Boomer generation was in their young adult to middle-aged years. However, this "golden age" is explained by several factors unrelated to the generation itself:
Societal Upheaval and Mobility: Increased transience, suburbanization, and "broken families" during the post-WWII era meant people were more anonymous, making it easier for killers to find victims and evade capture.
Lack of Technology: Inconsistent communication between police departments, limited forensic techniques, and a lack of DNA evidence or widespread surveillance technology meant killers operated with less risk of being caught.
Media Portrayal: The rise of mass-circulation newspapers and true-crime magazines created a "culture of celebrity" around killers, which some sought to emulate.
Individual Factors: Criminological research consistently links serial killing to individual factors such as severe childhood trauma (physical/sexual abuse, neglect), brain injuries, mental disorders (like antisocial personality disorder), and a need for power and control. These issues are not unique to any single generation.
Population Demographics: The large size of the Baby Boomer population meant a larger proportion of young men (the primary demographic for serial killers) in society, which could correlate with a higher number of total offenders, but not a higher rate per capita.
Cults
People join cults due to personal dissatisfaction and a search for meaning, community, and belonging, which cult leaders exploit using manipulative tactics.
Leadership Dynamics: Cults are formed around charismatic leaders who often exhibit psychopathy, narcissism, and sociopathy, traits found across all generations and historical periods.
Vulnerability: Individuals susceptible to cult recruitment often have experienced stress, loneliness, or low self-esteem.
Historical Context: Cults have existed throughout history, and their prevalence is tied to social conditions that create vulnerability, not the specific generation in power.
In essence, these phenomena stem from universal human vulnerabilities and complex societal shifts, rather than being the direct result of the "Boomer generation" as a whole.
I should've highlighted the key phrase more ("as it culturally was,"). The cultural trend of serial killing and cults, during that time frame, was derivative of "boomer" values uniquely. Serial killers have existed in many different forms throughout history. The modern cults are a bit more unique though because they're historically more tangential to spirituality rather than "authoritarian control". The Jones cult was hyper political rather than hyper religious. They also center around personalities of power rather than secret rites or whichever. I don't think boomers were the most narcissistic (I tend to think some elements in the greatest generation were), but they were the first to have it be the primary value of the generation. Cults and serial killing definitely blew up for the boomers and ended around the 90s as you quoted. It's hard to place that on anything except the generation's values.
We got a lot of good things from boomers, but it's important to grasp those values and grow from them. I'm a millennial so I'm not getting any slack ever lol. I think the music and arts industry is a great example in line with Aaron's point about not passing things on.
Actually, I do a have a couple of other questions.
Do you believe the Boomers are uniquely evil?
Do you believe that the experiences of the Vietnam War (being drafted, going to war, protesting the war, loss of a good part of the generation due to the war) had any effect on the ethos and subsequent behavior of the Boomers?
Were they the product of their circumstances?
Again, no argument, just questions.
Again, from Google AI:
It is not possible to state a precise number of baby boomers who died in the Vietnam War because official records do not break down casualties by generation. However, a large number of baby boomers served and died, and the average age of those killed was 23.1 years old. Some estimates suggest the U.S. lost around 58,000 personnel in total, with 40% of all males in the baby boomer generation serving in the war.
No. I'm way more relaxed about boomers than my own generation. Lost generation was definitely worse even if they were less narcissistic. They had the bolshevists, crazy real anarchists and nihilists who killed and robbed people as a set of their values, fascists, nazis etc etc. I appreciate them, but add in the fact that they could actually make movements rather than silly narcissistic soap operas (like millennials and gen z) and you've got a hell of a nightmare that we went through.
I haven't studied boomers in full, so I really can't answer the Vietnam question.
I will say I don't think people are entirely the product of their circumstances. I think they have a way of looking at things through their values and they interpret and act on situations in their manner. They have all the freedom in the world from that position. Boomers will go down as a very effective and impactful generation, but dw about generations too much. There's always a trace of any generation behind it and in front of it.
"I’m frequently struck by how Boomers, especially from the older cohort, simply cannot understand how anyone could possibly see the world differently from them. They are honestly confused by it."
It really is an astonishing phenomena.
Last Christmas my step-dad's parents were complaining about how they didn't understand what young people were complaining about. My own family are certainly not conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but they were able to agree with the most of points I expressed - with the occasional fact check. But my step-dad's parents simply refused to accept anything that was said that was outside their worldview! Even when it was simply a brute fact and the entire rest of the room agreed.
When they said they wanted to understand, what they really meant was they wanted an explanation that fit their preconceived notions. They had absolutely zero willingness to actually hear another point of view.
It amazes me that anyone can be so ignorant of today's prices that they can say "Why can't kids just work their way through college like we did" or "We saved up a couple years for a down payment on our house when we were just married. Why don't people do that now?"
Ok, saving up for college is like paying back a loan, except without the interest. You know what makes college so expensive? Loans. They can charge anything for college, because the government guarantees the loans. All that building you see on campuses? The government guarantees the loan, the college raises tuition, you may or may not graduate, in the meantime, the government is guaranteeing more loans and the college is raising tuition? The other thing is all the useless degrees.
I don't know your specific circumstances, so the following questions are rhetorical, not personal.
Did you spend more on your degree than could be supported by the job you would expect to get? Did you understand what you were getting into when you took out the loans? If (as is probably the case) no one explained it to you, did you ask? Once out of college, did you make a payment plan that would actually pay the debt down rather than letting it ride forever? If not, why not? What kind of car did you buy? Did you finance it? If so, for how long? Did you take trips? Did you have a big wedding? What kind of college did you go to? Community colleges are much less expensive and you can probably live at home. Was it too early to expect you to make sound decisions about your life and your money? Are you in debt now? Do you borrow for vacations, do you pay your credit card off every month?
As far as buying a house, I bought my first house when I was 45 years old and I could only buy it because my mother died. I dropped out of college after one semester because I honestly couldn't tell you what I was there for. Later, I worked my way up in my agency and retired at a level that was comparable to co-workers with PhDs. I was a single mom and not-quite-poor when I was raising my kids.
If your father-in-law is a jerk, either humor him or don't engage. But don't assume things about his life. You have no idea. As a matter of fact, try asking him. There may be a reason he believes the way he does, even if he's wrong. You could ask him that as well.
Ok, I plead guilty to many of the charges against the Baby Boomers, including the ones that we have overstayed our welcome and that we just have to be right.
Bu remember, the parent/child dynamic is as old as time, as is the grandparent/child dynamic and I recognize much of that in the comments.
I loved my parents, but I rebelled (it wasn't a big rebellion as rebellions go, I never did drugs or moved to San Francisco). My grandparents doted on us. I love my kids and they love me. But they rebelled. And I dote on my grandkids. My kids and I have learned to be careful around each other. If our parents didn't rebel, it was because they didn't dare to.
But before you get too involved in how horrible we are, my son was born when his dad was in Vietnam (he enlisted when he got his draft notice so that at least he could choose his MOS-military occupational specialty). I was born when my dad was in Korea. I sat with my 18-year-old son on a bench discussing whether he needed to have a will before deploying to Saudi Arabia. One timeline about the Boomers described the summer of love and how we were the generation that protested the Vietnam war. Apparently it wasn't worthy of mention that our generation was also the one that got sent to that needless war of choice by the Silent Generation and were the ones that fought and died in that war. We also were subject to the draft (unless we had bone spurs or a college deferment), including the last year when young men could watch on TV to see when their birthdate was drawn. If it was drawn early, then they were definitely going to be drafted and had a high likelihood of going to war. That marked us all. Our President was assassinated. Martin Luther King was assassinated. Have you ever visited the Vietnam War Memorial? Those Boomers won't be arguing with you.
It was Franklin Roosevelt (greatest generation) who created social security and Lyndon Johnson (Silent Generation) who first sent troops to Vietnam and oversaw the great society.
Whatever you think about the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, it was the Civil Rights Act that led to the end of Jim Crow. It was Baby Boomers who went south to protest segregation in the south; they were led by the Silent Generation.
Each generation benefits and suffers from the previous generation. Technology has sped everything up and who knows what the future will be? But everyone who blames us for climate change sure enjoys the lifestyle enabled by the fossil fuels.
Oh, there's plenty to blame us for, but there is also plenty of blame to spread around.
But don't worry, we'll be getting off the stage soon enough, yet not so soon that we don't know the contempt you have for us.
Oh, and go read read this column and the comments to your mother. She will be so happy.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Reading through your comments, I think they really get to the heart of what Aaron's talking about, and they're a perfect example of what I mentioned in my first post.
When younger people talk about broad economic changes, you keep coming back to your own story of overcoming difficult circumstances, which is valid and real. But this is exactly where the conversation breaks down. You're both arguing from completely different places: one side is talking about how the system has changed, the other is talking about personal grit and determination.
My own family shows how things have shifted. When my great-grandfather walked out on his family, his brothers dragged him back home. There was this community expectation that people would be held accountable. By the time my parents divorced, that whole social structure had fallen apart. The responsibility moved from the community to the individual, with the state picking up the pieces.
So when people talk about their struggles today, they're not saying your generation had it easy, just easier. The basic rules have changed. You asked for concrete examples, so here's what younger generations are dealing with:
Housing: In the mid-1980s, the average home cost about 3.5 times what a typical household earned. Now it's over 5.5 times, and much worse in cities where the jobs actually are. No amount of hard work changes that maths.
Wages: Your career, working your way up to a senior position without a degree, shows real ability. But that route barely exists anymore. Since the 1970s, productivity has gone through the roof whilst most people's actual wages have barely budged. Working hard doesn't translate to getting ahead the way it used to.
Degrees: Part of why that career path is gone is "degree inflation." Loads of jobs that used to need just secondary school (or even less) now require a degree, which means taking on massive debt for opportunities your generation could access without it.
This is what the article means by the "Boomer world." It's this assumption that everything comes down to individual effort, and that struggling with systemic problems is just making excuses.
And this is why asking for "examples" doesn't really bridge the gap. When someone shows you the data about how things have changed, the response is "well, I had it tough and I managed" - which perfectly proves my point. It's wanting an answer that confirms what you already believe, rather than being open to the idea that the world has fundamentally changed.
Thank you. I agree with all of that. We're leaving you a mess.
The classic question is: have you stopped beating your wife?
That's what you're asking of me. You have pain and you are blaming my generation. Any effort I make to respond is met with "well that's my point."
You want me to acknowledge your pain? I acknowledge it, it is real. It's probably the Boomers' fault.
There, does that make you feel better? Does it solve your problem?
You said: "This is what the article means by the "Boomer world." It's this assumption that everything comes down to individual effort, and that struggling with systemic problems is just making excuses."
I acknowledge the suffering. What I can't stand is the whining and blame game.
Tell me, what kind of car do you drive? Do you take vacations? Did you go to a community college which is much less expensive than a big university? A nice one in the suburbs? Are you paying off your student loans? Do you carry credit card debt? What kind of house are you looking to buy? There are lots of affordable houses out there, we called them "starter homes." Furnish it from second hand stores. There are some great ones out there. Is it that you can't afford to buy a house or that you can't afford to buy the house you want?"
Tell you what, move into an apartment and have a kid. That's right. You don't need to wait until you can "afford" one. Oh, day care is too expensive? But you don't need day care. One of you can stay home and care for your children, or maybe you can adjust your schedules to tag team. Oh, but you can't afford that? Maybe your Boomer mom can watch the baby. But you probably can. You just might have to give up vacations and going out and expensive cars.
I recently went to a lawyer to make my will. Very nice young man in his 30s. He is a good lawyer. Making conversation, I asked if he had kids. He said, no, that he and his wife were having too much travelling and such, so probably wouldn't have kids. Really. Is that why God put you on this earth? To have fun? I hear some people say "I wouldn't bring children into this world because of climate change...or whatever." That is pure nihilism. Children are our future. They are our only future. They are our only hope. We are already not replacing ourselves.
You're right about my job rise. You can't really do that any more. The job market has changed. It always changes. In my time, it was farmers who went bankrupt or had to sell to conglomerates. A lot of people lost their jobs to computers and factory automation. Both my parents worked in factories--that is how they got ahead. They didn't love their jobs, they just did them so they could support their families. So roll with it. There are always ways to get ahead. But they aren't handed to you on a platter. By the way, if your degree isn't getting you the job that pays enough, learn to be a plumber or a carpenter.
Everything DOES come down to individual effort. Even the decision to work together begins with individual effort. Read the fairy tale "The Elves and the Shoemaker." Are you waiting for the elves to come and solve your problems?
I'm not saying its easy. It's not supposed to be easy. But if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
It doesn't matter who created the problem. Assigning blame is a fruitless exercise.
You think you are so special because you think you got a raw deal. Go to your Old Testament, read Job. Now that was a raw deal.
I recently went back to church. You know why? Charlie Kirk (I didn't even know who he was) was murdered. And then I starting listening to him. You would do well to do the same.
You demand I understand you when you have no wish to understand me. You're waiting for my generation to die out so you will be free of us. Don't worry, we will. If you read my posts, you will see that I have acknowledged a number of things my generation got wrong. But you don't notice those because you are so focused on your grievances.
By the way, do you know why I am talking like this to you now? Because I didn't do when I should have.
I understand frugality, but here is some of what has changed. Frugality can support Christian living. I learned it from Boomers so I'm not mad. I want to give back and explain what I know.
Housing: There's a new housing restriction compared to your examples. Lead paint was restricted in 1978. Somewhere in the 90s lead was taken out of gasoline, which shows an awareness about lead. Merely ugly starter homes were revealed as unsafe for families. Settling would be irresponsible because lead poisoning is not reversible.
Then starter homes stopped being profitable for builders so there are very few. Some places are 55+ and ban children to help communities plan schools, which is fine to a degree but removes options.
That all was the situation before housing costs skyrocketed with COVID.
Cars: Airbags and the addition of computers increased car prices in the 90s. Cars are more complicated for emissions standards but that is harder to fix things independently. If you live in an apartment complex, the lease may forbid doing any kind of car maintenance in the parking lot, so no changing your own oil.
Insurance: All kinds have gotten more complicated, and some people end up not feeling ease or protection because they can only afford the base plan for any given type of insurance.
I really wonder, do you use spreadsheets? Are you mildly comfortable or very comfortable? If you are very comfortable, have you helped any young person with their budget spreadsheet? That could be part of the divide.
Spreadsheet experience gives me fear in my heart for young people. If the math isn't working out, it is best to face it of course and try to do something like move home or get other family help, but with people moving away for jobs, some people will have a hard time.
Young people who face financial constraints by downgrading their situation to something like too many roommates are going to feel it acutely. They won't feel that they have the American dream. If they don't see a way to get there, then that is awful hard.
Thank you for explaining this to me. Yes, I see that.
I was a school finance analyst in my working life, so, yes I do understand spreadsheets and have always kept my own budget. I would love to help a young person to figure this out, but my grandchildren are all accountants and don't need my help and I don't know of any place that would want my help. But there's help out there. Dave Ramsey is one good source, there are others. But that's too much about me, and we're talking about you.
But in answer to your question, I am comfortable, mainly because I worked for government, have a reliable pension and have always been frugal and generally stayed out of debt. I also have good health insurance.
I know pensions have gone by the wayside and that your generation mostly won't have them. I would tell you that this is actually good for your generation because there was a time when companies were raiding pension funds (which the courts decided belonged to the companies, not the workers) and retirees would suddenly get cut off. Your 401Ks (or whatever they are now) belong only to you.
Yes, we enjoyed a lot and and we essentially broke the bank for your generation. That was unforgivable, nevertheless, fairly or not, it will be up to your generation to deal with that. The question is will you have the will to do what it takes, since the current Congress abdicated its responsibility ages ago and that's why we are in this fix.
Social security has to be fixed. Right now it is a massive transfer of wealth from your generation to ours. It is, indeed, a Ponzi scheme no matter how many people try to argue that it is not. Personally, I would start by recalculating the basis for cost of living increases and graduate any increases based on income. Not because it would solve much, but because it is low-hanging fruit. Yes, it would cut my social security and I sure enjoy spending it, but this is unsustainable. After that, I don't have a fix, I'm not smart enough. Unfortunately, this will be up to you as well.
Entitlement spending. Again, we screwed you. The only way the budget will be balanced is to cut entitlement spending. Again, it's going to be up to you. If you actually want to fix things, you can't be electing Democratic Socialists (using the collective you, not the "you" you).
Power: Time will take care of our monopoly on power. But you should start preparing, if you are not already doing so. Run for school board and city council. Get known. Then move up to the state legislature and maybe even higher. The old people keep getting elected because people know their names and have amassed a lot of political power.
I'll give you an anecdote: In my job, I often had to go to to legislative hearings to monitor what was happening with education finance related bills. At one hearing, the first order of business was interviewing recent nominees to a government board. Two of the people (my generation) were from the corporate world and were clearly connected in politics. One was a college student who has been nominated for a student seat. The "grown-ups" acted entitled, they knew this was a slam dunk, they didn't say too much. The college student was prepared. He didn't assume anything and treated the proceeding with the seriousness it deserved. Keep on being like him and try not to get cynical and jaded.
Insurance: too many people misunderstand insurance and nowhere is that more evident than in health insurance. One problem is that the government keeps requiring that basic services be covered. The issue is that it is an oxymoron for insurance to cover basic services. Its purpose is to cover unusually expensive circumstances. What would happen if we required auto insurance to pay for oil changes? You're right about the cars. I have a 2014 Rav4 with 110,000 miles. I've taken care of it and it should last at least another 100,000 miles. This is good, since even the price of used cars is now prohibitive.
Also, climate change (which is real but which is not going to destroy the planet and wipe out humans). But homeowners insurance is going to be increasingly difficult, if not impossible to get.
Housing: this goes up and down. The interest rate on my first house was an 8.5% ARM. The moment I could, I refinanced. I wouldn't take out an ARM now, it's too risky. The biggest barrier to buying a home is the down payment.
You know all this, you don't need me to tell you. But I do understand more than you might think.
I guess the point of my other posts, while perhaps overwrought, is that adversity is the human condition. So is progress. To be a bit facetious, when I first learned to iron, there was no such thing as a steam iron. Now, nobody irons.
Every generation has its hardships. And, generally speaking, young and old have never really been able to talk to each other about these things. I get how we screwed you, but its hard to talk about because we're both right from our perspectives and it can get touchy.
But we did a lot of good too, good that you benefit from. Civil rights. Women's rights (I was always asked in interviews if I was pregnant or planned to be pregnant. You can't ask that anymore. I was not allowed to have a credit card in my own name. I didn't get any paid maternity leave and employers didn't want to hear about child care issues.) Health care and technology. My mother had twin babies in the sixth month and they died. My daughter had twin babies in the sixth month and they are now 22 years old,
So, back to the point I got clobbered on: Get to work. Solve your problems. You are not as unique as you seem to believe you are and you are way smarter and more capable than you seem to think you are. What is happening to you is life. Sometimes it sucks. But it's all we have.
I've had a lot of hardships in my life. But I wouldn't change a thing.
I hope I have not fallen into the trap of solipsism with this post. If I have, I apologize. It's sort of a characteristic of old people, regardless of generation.
And thank you for explaining. I had promised myself that I would get out of the business of commenting, but I really did appreciate your post and I hope my comment conveys that.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I can see this touches something deep for you.
I need to be honest though, I think we're talking past each other in a way that proves the original article's point, and I don't think continuing will help either of us.
You've asked me personal questions about my car, my holidays, whether I shop at charity shops. But that's exactly the issue. When someone shows you data about how the entire economic structure has shifted, responding with "but have you tried buying second-hand furniture?" isn't engaging with what they're saying. It's deflecting from the systemic to the personal.
You've acknowledged the mess your generation is leaving, which I genuinely appreciate. But in the same breath, you've called younger people whiners who are waiting for elves to solve their problems. That's not acknowledgement, that's dismissal with a bit of rhetorical cover.
The really telling bit is this: you've said I demand you understand me whilst having no wish to understand you. But Mary Jo, I've spent this entire conversation trying to understand your perspective and explain mine in return. You've spent it asking me about my car and telling me to listen to Charlie Kirk.
I don't think you're a bad person. I think you've lived through real hardship and found ways to overcome it, and that's genuinely admirable. But the inability to separate "I struggled and succeeded" from "therefore the system is fine and anyone who struggles is just not trying hard enough" - that's the solipsism Aaron's writing about.
I'm not waiting for your generation to die out. I'm not even particularly angry. Mostly I'm just sad that we can't seem to have this conversation without it turning into mutual recriminations.
I hope you find peace with all this. I really do. But I won't be responding further, not out of anger, but because I don't think we're getting anywhere, and life's too short to spend it shouting into the void.
Ok, a general comment. Maybe I'm obtuse (because I'm a Boomer?) but I still don't understand what is this Boomer world that you are all living in?
Because I don't recognize this world right now. I don't understand how abortion has gone from being a tragedy to being a sacrament. I don't understand how a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. I don't understand why Israel, and only Israel, should not be permitted to defend itself against atrocities. I don't understand why we no longer understand the Russian threat. I don't understand why antisemitism has again reared its ugly head. I don't understand the racism and sexism of DEI. I don't understand the entitlement of kids who graduate from college expecting top salaries and a corner office. I don't understand cryptocurrency.
I asked for examples and what I got was a list of grievances with no evidence: that we did something bad to music, that we are serial killers and cultists and are now responsible for school shootings, and that we are narcissists. I've already admitted to staying too long at the dance, but did we push you away or did you fail to step up? I don't know the answer, I'm not accusing, I'm just asking the question that you didn't address.
You know, in order to understand the Greatest Generation, you need to understand the world wars. In order to understand the Boomers, you need to understand Vietnam and the Kennedy assassinations (yup, there were two), and the MLK assassination.
Go and read memoirs by Vietnam vets. Go and read about the orphans and widows. Go and read about the reception the returning vets got when they came home. Go and read about the lies we were told. Every generation has its trauma. We were not exempt and you are not exempt.
My husband abused me, left us, and outright refused to see his kids. Yet my daughter worships him and blames me. And now he has died and she blames me because she never got to know him (she is 50 years old). I understand this, I really do. First, it is safe to blame me, because am here and won't leave (until I die). Second, when you are the parent who has left, you have done a big, bad thing, but it's only one thing. If you're the parent who is there, you get to make mistakes every. single. day.
So please, give me specific examples of how this is the Boomers' world that you are only living in, but that we will get our comeuppance when you reject us and create your own world. News flash, we will be dead and we won't care.
And then keep a copy so you can refer to it when your own children blame you.
I'm not as negative about these demographic changes as many are. The new immigrants will be absorbed into the dominant culture just as the offspring of Ellis Island were through assimilation and intermarriage.
We're blessed to have so many high achieving immigrants from countries like India and China, as well as people like Elon Musk. There are downsides to diversity for sure and we need to enforce our immigration laws, but it's a positive for ecoomic growth.
The Ellis Islanders (which includes my own family) were forcibly assimilated, something that's very much not happening today.
There's a lot I could comment on in this piece, the effects of the Boomers has been a fascination of mine, ever since I was a small child and watched my dad fret, after my oldest sister ran off to California. She was anti-war but wore an army jacket. From the beginning, none of this has ever quite made sense.
Us late-cohort Boomers had a very different experience than the earlier ones. I get what Mary Jo is saying, she's about a decade older than me and she's telling it how it was for her cohort. While it doesn't quite fit the 1946-64 official period, this is the best division of the Boomer generation I've found, based on year born:
1940-49 College before hippies made it kind of crazy, graduated to a great job market
1950-59 Idyllic childhood, then drugs & Vietnam. Some yuppies prospered but a pretty raw deal for many
1960-64 Society starting to unravel, then economic downturn, Watergate, oil embargoes
Basically, I felt like us late Boomers got to the party right as it was ending, and kept having to clean up messes from the older Boomers. And I still feel like that, as I watch them completely unable to get their act together and run the country.
It's also true they've always been rather self-absorbed, but perhaps it was inevitable, when you grow up in such a huge group of kids. The older Boomers love huge group activities, MAGA is just the latest manifestation, and very much a typical Boomer phenomenon. I always hated crowds.
Nevertheless, to be fair, a lot of them did have problems at home, and then later as young adults, as first the post-WW2 families fractured, and then the society. Some of my earliest memories are of the MLK and RFK assasinations, and the Tet Offensive. That was confusing to a little kid, but the older Boomers were the ones in the middle of that chaos, on campus and in Vietnam.
I agree that there's a big difference between the late Boomers (children of the 70s) and early Boomers (children of the 60s). It's really the early Boomers who have dominated America.
'Basically, I felt like us late Boomers got to the party right as it was ending, and kept having to clean up messes from the older Boomers. And I still feel like that, as I watch them completely unable to get their act together and run the country.'
I get your point but, again, do you have any examples of the late Boomers cleaning up after the early Boomers?
Also, did we exert any force to "cling" to power, or did the next generation fail to rise? As a Boomer, I can't this, but I would like to know your (and others') positions on this. I am as outraged as anyone about the gerontocracy of Congress, but who kept voting them in?
I will say that the current "crop" of young people scares the heck out of me--says almost every old person regardless of generation.
My parents are so old-fashioned and out of touch--says almost every young person regardless of generation.
We will die out, the young will carry on and such is the way of life and it is as it should be.
I just bristle at the charge that somehow we are uniquely the worst.
I wonder if boomers aren't the bridge to the Western World tradition. In many ways it was not passed on to millennials (speaking for my own experience) by boomers. For example in my high school English class in suburban Atlanta in the late 1990's, it was only myself and my boomer teacher who advocated for absolute truth in a class discussion on the nature of truth.
But boomers were also reacting against Western tradition and so much of what was passed on was critical. So what was passed on was the criticism without the tradition. This is part of why they are what is holding back the excesses of modern thought. They were the generation that both received the inheritance of Western tradition, and chose to represent something different. Without that inheritance, what do we have left to stand for in society?
From a societal sense, I am not sure what GenX received. Did they have Western tradition passed to them them to receive? Or did they primarily receive the criticism?
Gen X, at least the older part of the generation like me, also had direct access to pre-Boomer generations, like my grandparents, who were Greatest Generation. So we weren't Boomer dependent for everything.
Re: Yet they created a world in which their own children will be turned into racial minorities.
Careful. White people (minus Hispanics many of whom really do qualify as "white") will remain the plurality of the US population as far out as it makes sense to look. The handwringing over white people becoming a minority strikes me as overwrought for this among other reasons.
It makes a lot more sense when you look at any multi-ethnic society. Keeping society together in those requires things that are very unpalatable to modern Western sensibilities; that order probably won't happen and... well, things worked out alright in the Balkans and Middle East. Right?
Why does he have to be careful about saying something that's true? Also, "Yet they created a world in which their own children will be turned into racial minorities. . . . This demographic change, whether one sees it as positive or negative, will be the determining factor of post-Boomer America." hardly strikes me as handwringing, overwrought or otherwise.
In the US we have solution: we coopt new groups into the white category. I mentioned Hispanic people above. Really there are only two groups that have been kept as outsiders: blacks and Native Americans.
As a 73-year-old Boomer, I agree with much of this, especially the part about Boomers not being able to understand how "anyone could possibly see the world differently from them."
I would have to leave it up to someone else to determine whether I fit the stereotype; but I will say that about 40 years ago, when I was a committed liberal, I started reading columns by conservative writers and I started seeing that we were grappling with the same questions, we just had different answers. But gradually, very gradually, I started seeing things with different eyes to the point where I voted for Biden in 2020 and Trump in 2024 (the trans phenomenon was my breaking point). Also, I've mellowed and I'm not as sure of my absolute rightness as I used to be, even as I argue with my liberal Boomer friends about whether a fetus is a human being.
But I'm a little perplexed at the charge that we still are living in the Boomers' world. Would you have examples?
The presidents of the United States in 1997, 2007, 2017, and 2027 will have all been born in the same year: 1946.
Interesting.
Bill Clinton. George W. Bush. Donald Trump. Ditto Trump.
Kennedy (b. 1917), Johnson (1908), Nixon (1913), Ford (1913), Carter (1924), Reagan (1911) and George H. W. Bush (1924) were all Greatest Generation, covering the years 1961 through 1992 (31 years). There were 7 presidents from the Greatest Generation.
Clinton, George W., Obama and Trump covered the years from 1993 through 2021 (28 years) followed by four years of Biden (Silent Generation) and Trump is less than a year into his second term. There have been 4 presidents from the Boomer generation.
Three Boomer presidents were born in the same year. Two of the greatest generation presidents were born in 1913 and two were born in 1924.
The next election will be in 2030. The youngest Boomers will be 66, so they will still be viable candidates. The oldest Gen Zs will be 35 and newly eligible.
So, what's your point?
That's a great ending question. Obviously the presidencies and the style of presidencies is something. But I think, maybe, the best examples are in the arts for his points. There was a sort of romantic (hippie) pop revival in the late 90s-early 00s, but, now, popular music has no sway on people. Same for films etc. You don't just lose that. It's simply not passed on. We're past the era of serial killers and cults, but that, as it culturally was, was very much a boomer relic of culture. Of course now it's mass shootings, it's not a perfect world, but the mindset behind cults and the serial killers was an inability to self regulate and a desire absorb things into one's self. Gen x, with the Anglican church, tried to continue that cultural stream with Nine O'clock Service, but it didn't catch on. There was a change of cultural values post cold war which we see with the pomo schizophrenic it girls and the cybernetics and the politically correct stuff gaining ascendancy.
I'm sure there's a lot which can be noted, but there are some relevant milestones.
"We're past the era of serial killers and cults, but that, as it culturally was, was very much a boomer relic of culture. Of course now it's mass shootings, it's not a perfect world, but the mindset behind cults and the serial killers was an inability to self regulate and a desire absorb things into one's self."
Wow. I understand we have a lot to answer for and that the 60s was a time of self-indulgence. But we are are responsible for serial killers and cults? How do you explain Jack the Ripper? How do you explain the most obvious cult of all: the cult of Naziism and Hitler (yes, I know that going to Hitler is pretty lame, but it does seem appropriate here.)
And you don't really the question. The premise is "This is the Boomers' world and we just live in it." Aaron gave examples (and didn't blame us for serial killers), such as the prevalence of Boomers still running things. I'll accept blame for that, as we left our kids with babysitters while we went out to find fulfillment in the world (I was a single mom with no choice, but to kids the "why" doesn't make any difference, the reality is the same). So many of our kids were left driftless and without solid examples of family or leadership. (Even so, my daughter is an executive in a large corporation and I expect her brilliant kids to surpass her.) Many of weren't ready to lead or run things. But their kids are. What we're seeing now is a youth movement, both left (Mamdani) and right (Charlie Kirk, may he rest in peace).
Or, it could just be that there were so many of us (not our fault) that we would be over-represented in pretty much everything. And I wonder how many of these hanger-ons are the eldest child in their family? Very little is so neatly black and white.
So, do you have a better, more concrete example? I'm open; I'm not looking to tear down, but please, get real.
Do you know the difference between correlation and causation? Do you have evidence that it was the Boomers who caused serial killers and cults? My new friend, Google AI, says the following. Of course, neither Google nor AI are infallible, but at least they point to evidence.
Serial Killers
The peak of serial killer activity was in the U.S. from the 1970s to the 1990s, the period when the Baby Boomer generation was in their young adult to middle-aged years. However, this "golden age" is explained by several factors unrelated to the generation itself:
Societal Upheaval and Mobility: Increased transience, suburbanization, and "broken families" during the post-WWII era meant people were more anonymous, making it easier for killers to find victims and evade capture.
Lack of Technology: Inconsistent communication between police departments, limited forensic techniques, and a lack of DNA evidence or widespread surveillance technology meant killers operated with less risk of being caught.
Media Portrayal: The rise of mass-circulation newspapers and true-crime magazines created a "culture of celebrity" around killers, which some sought to emulate.
Individual Factors: Criminological research consistently links serial killing to individual factors such as severe childhood trauma (physical/sexual abuse, neglect), brain injuries, mental disorders (like antisocial personality disorder), and a need for power and control. These issues are not unique to any single generation.
Population Demographics: The large size of the Baby Boomer population meant a larger proportion of young men (the primary demographic for serial killers) in society, which could correlate with a higher number of total offenders, but not a higher rate per capita.
Cults
People join cults due to personal dissatisfaction and a search for meaning, community, and belonging, which cult leaders exploit using manipulative tactics.
Leadership Dynamics: Cults are formed around charismatic leaders who often exhibit psychopathy, narcissism, and sociopathy, traits found across all generations and historical periods.
Vulnerability: Individuals susceptible to cult recruitment often have experienced stress, loneliness, or low self-esteem.
Historical Context: Cults have existed throughout history, and their prevalence is tied to social conditions that create vulnerability, not the specific generation in power.
In essence, these phenomena stem from universal human vulnerabilities and complex societal shifts, rather than being the direct result of the "Boomer generation" as a whole.
I should've highlighted the key phrase more ("as it culturally was,"). The cultural trend of serial killing and cults, during that time frame, was derivative of "boomer" values uniquely. Serial killers have existed in many different forms throughout history. The modern cults are a bit more unique though because they're historically more tangential to spirituality rather than "authoritarian control". The Jones cult was hyper political rather than hyper religious. They also center around personalities of power rather than secret rites or whichever. I don't think boomers were the most narcissistic (I tend to think some elements in the greatest generation were), but they were the first to have it be the primary value of the generation. Cults and serial killing definitely blew up for the boomers and ended around the 90s as you quoted. It's hard to place that on anything except the generation's values.
We got a lot of good things from boomers, but it's important to grasp those values and grow from them. I'm a millennial so I'm not getting any slack ever lol. I think the music and arts industry is a great example in line with Aaron's point about not passing things on.
Actually, I do a have a couple of other questions.
Do you believe the Boomers are uniquely evil?
Do you believe that the experiences of the Vietnam War (being drafted, going to war, protesting the war, loss of a good part of the generation due to the war) had any effect on the ethos and subsequent behavior of the Boomers?
Were they the product of their circumstances?
Again, no argument, just questions.
Again, from Google AI:
It is not possible to state a precise number of baby boomers who died in the Vietnam War because official records do not break down casualties by generation. However, a large number of baby boomers served and died, and the average age of those killed was 23.1 years old. Some estimates suggest the U.S. lost around 58,000 personnel in total, with 40% of all males in the baby boomer generation serving in the war.
No. I'm way more relaxed about boomers than my own generation. Lost generation was definitely worse even if they were less narcissistic. They had the bolshevists, crazy real anarchists and nihilists who killed and robbed people as a set of their values, fascists, nazis etc etc. I appreciate them, but add in the fact that they could actually make movements rather than silly narcissistic soap operas (like millennials and gen z) and you've got a hell of a nightmare that we went through.
I haven't studied boomers in full, so I really can't answer the Vietnam question.
I will say I don't think people are entirely the product of their circumstances. I think they have a way of looking at things through their values and they interpret and act on situations in their manner. They have all the freedom in the world from that position. Boomers will go down as a very effective and impactful generation, but dw about generations too much. There's always a trace of any generation behind it and in front of it.
Thanks for your clarification, though I still don't get it.
But this is one Boomer who has let go of control and does it ever feel good!
I might say "copacetic."
Have a great day.
"I’m frequently struck by how Boomers, especially from the older cohort, simply cannot understand how anyone could possibly see the world differently from them. They are honestly confused by it."
It really is an astonishing phenomena.
Last Christmas my step-dad's parents were complaining about how they didn't understand what young people were complaining about. My own family are certainly not conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but they were able to agree with the most of points I expressed - with the occasional fact check. But my step-dad's parents simply refused to accept anything that was said that was outside their worldview! Even when it was simply a brute fact and the entire rest of the room agreed.
When they said they wanted to understand, what they really meant was they wanted an explanation that fit their preconceived notions. They had absolutely zero willingness to actually hear another point of view.
It amazes me that anyone can be so ignorant of today's prices that they can say "Why can't kids just work their way through college like we did" or "We saved up a couple years for a down payment on our house when we were just married. Why don't people do that now?"
Ok, saving up for college is like paying back a loan, except without the interest. You know what makes college so expensive? Loans. They can charge anything for college, because the government guarantees the loans. All that building you see on campuses? The government guarantees the loan, the college raises tuition, you may or may not graduate, in the meantime, the government is guaranteeing more loans and the college is raising tuition? The other thing is all the useless degrees.
I don't know your specific circumstances, so the following questions are rhetorical, not personal.
Did you spend more on your degree than could be supported by the job you would expect to get? Did you understand what you were getting into when you took out the loans? If (as is probably the case) no one explained it to you, did you ask? Once out of college, did you make a payment plan that would actually pay the debt down rather than letting it ride forever? If not, why not? What kind of car did you buy? Did you finance it? If so, for how long? Did you take trips? Did you have a big wedding? What kind of college did you go to? Community colleges are much less expensive and you can probably live at home. Was it too early to expect you to make sound decisions about your life and your money? Are you in debt now? Do you borrow for vacations, do you pay your credit card off every month?
As far as buying a house, I bought my first house when I was 45 years old and I could only buy it because my mother died. I dropped out of college after one semester because I honestly couldn't tell you what I was there for. Later, I worked my way up in my agency and retired at a level that was comparable to co-workers with PhDs. I was a single mom and not-quite-poor when I was raising my kids.
If your father-in-law is a jerk, either humor him or don't engage. But don't assume things about his life. You have no idea. As a matter of fact, try asking him. There may be a reason he believes the way he does, even if he's wrong. You could ask him that as well.
Exactly!
Ok, I plead guilty to many of the charges against the Baby Boomers, including the ones that we have overstayed our welcome and that we just have to be right.
Bu remember, the parent/child dynamic is as old as time, as is the grandparent/child dynamic and I recognize much of that in the comments.
I loved my parents, but I rebelled (it wasn't a big rebellion as rebellions go, I never did drugs or moved to San Francisco). My grandparents doted on us. I love my kids and they love me. But they rebelled. And I dote on my grandkids. My kids and I have learned to be careful around each other. If our parents didn't rebel, it was because they didn't dare to.
But before you get too involved in how horrible we are, my son was born when his dad was in Vietnam (he enlisted when he got his draft notice so that at least he could choose his MOS-military occupational specialty). I was born when my dad was in Korea. I sat with my 18-year-old son on a bench discussing whether he needed to have a will before deploying to Saudi Arabia. One timeline about the Boomers described the summer of love and how we were the generation that protested the Vietnam war. Apparently it wasn't worthy of mention that our generation was also the one that got sent to that needless war of choice by the Silent Generation and were the ones that fought and died in that war. We also were subject to the draft (unless we had bone spurs or a college deferment), including the last year when young men could watch on TV to see when their birthdate was drawn. If it was drawn early, then they were definitely going to be drafted and had a high likelihood of going to war. That marked us all. Our President was assassinated. Martin Luther King was assassinated. Have you ever visited the Vietnam War Memorial? Those Boomers won't be arguing with you.
It was Franklin Roosevelt (greatest generation) who created social security and Lyndon Johnson (Silent Generation) who first sent troops to Vietnam and oversaw the great society.
Whatever you think about the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, it was the Civil Rights Act that led to the end of Jim Crow. It was Baby Boomers who went south to protest segregation in the south; they were led by the Silent Generation.
Each generation benefits and suffers from the previous generation. Technology has sped everything up and who knows what the future will be? But everyone who blames us for climate change sure enjoys the lifestyle enabled by the fossil fuels.
Oh, there's plenty to blame us for, but there is also plenty of blame to spread around.
But don't worry, we'll be getting off the stage soon enough, yet not so soon that we don't know the contempt you have for us.
Oh, and go read read this column and the comments to your mother. She will be so happy.
Hi Mary Jo,
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Reading through your comments, I think they really get to the heart of what Aaron's talking about, and they're a perfect example of what I mentioned in my first post.
When younger people talk about broad economic changes, you keep coming back to your own story of overcoming difficult circumstances, which is valid and real. But this is exactly where the conversation breaks down. You're both arguing from completely different places: one side is talking about how the system has changed, the other is talking about personal grit and determination.
My own family shows how things have shifted. When my great-grandfather walked out on his family, his brothers dragged him back home. There was this community expectation that people would be held accountable. By the time my parents divorced, that whole social structure had fallen apart. The responsibility moved from the community to the individual, with the state picking up the pieces.
So when people talk about their struggles today, they're not saying your generation had it easy, just easier. The basic rules have changed. You asked for concrete examples, so here's what younger generations are dealing with:
Housing: In the mid-1980s, the average home cost about 3.5 times what a typical household earned. Now it's over 5.5 times, and much worse in cities where the jobs actually are. No amount of hard work changes that maths.
Wages: Your career, working your way up to a senior position without a degree, shows real ability. But that route barely exists anymore. Since the 1970s, productivity has gone through the roof whilst most people's actual wages have barely budged. Working hard doesn't translate to getting ahead the way it used to.
Degrees: Part of why that career path is gone is "degree inflation." Loads of jobs that used to need just secondary school (or even less) now require a degree, which means taking on massive debt for opportunities your generation could access without it.
This is what the article means by the "Boomer world." It's this assumption that everything comes down to individual effort, and that struggling with systemic problems is just making excuses.
And this is why asking for "examples" doesn't really bridge the gap. When someone shows you the data about how things have changed, the response is "well, I had it tough and I managed" - which perfectly proves my point. It's wanting an answer that confirms what you already believe, rather than being open to the idea that the world has fundamentally changed.
Thank you. I agree with all of that. We're leaving you a mess.
The classic question is: have you stopped beating your wife?
That's what you're asking of me. You have pain and you are blaming my generation. Any effort I make to respond is met with "well that's my point."
You want me to acknowledge your pain? I acknowledge it, it is real. It's probably the Boomers' fault.
There, does that make you feel better? Does it solve your problem?
You said: "This is what the article means by the "Boomer world." It's this assumption that everything comes down to individual effort, and that struggling with systemic problems is just making excuses."
I acknowledge the suffering. What I can't stand is the whining and blame game.
Tell me, what kind of car do you drive? Do you take vacations? Did you go to a community college which is much less expensive than a big university? A nice one in the suburbs? Are you paying off your student loans? Do you carry credit card debt? What kind of house are you looking to buy? There are lots of affordable houses out there, we called them "starter homes." Furnish it from second hand stores. There are some great ones out there. Is it that you can't afford to buy a house or that you can't afford to buy the house you want?"
Tell you what, move into an apartment and have a kid. That's right. You don't need to wait until you can "afford" one. Oh, day care is too expensive? But you don't need day care. One of you can stay home and care for your children, or maybe you can adjust your schedules to tag team. Oh, but you can't afford that? Maybe your Boomer mom can watch the baby. But you probably can. You just might have to give up vacations and going out and expensive cars.
I recently went to a lawyer to make my will. Very nice young man in his 30s. He is a good lawyer. Making conversation, I asked if he had kids. He said, no, that he and his wife were having too much travelling and such, so probably wouldn't have kids. Really. Is that why God put you on this earth? To have fun? I hear some people say "I wouldn't bring children into this world because of climate change...or whatever." That is pure nihilism. Children are our future. They are our only future. They are our only hope. We are already not replacing ourselves.
You're right about my job rise. You can't really do that any more. The job market has changed. It always changes. In my time, it was farmers who went bankrupt or had to sell to conglomerates. A lot of people lost their jobs to computers and factory automation. Both my parents worked in factories--that is how they got ahead. They didn't love their jobs, they just did them so they could support their families. So roll with it. There are always ways to get ahead. But they aren't handed to you on a platter. By the way, if your degree isn't getting you the job that pays enough, learn to be a plumber or a carpenter.
Everything DOES come down to individual effort. Even the decision to work together begins with individual effort. Read the fairy tale "The Elves and the Shoemaker." Are you waiting for the elves to come and solve your problems?
I'm not saying its easy. It's not supposed to be easy. But if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
It doesn't matter who created the problem. Assigning blame is a fruitless exercise.
You think you are so special because you think you got a raw deal. Go to your Old Testament, read Job. Now that was a raw deal.
I recently went back to church. You know why? Charlie Kirk (I didn't even know who he was) was murdered. And then I starting listening to him. You would do well to do the same.
You demand I understand you when you have no wish to understand me. You're waiting for my generation to die out so you will be free of us. Don't worry, we will. If you read my posts, you will see that I have acknowledged a number of things my generation got wrong. But you don't notice those because you are so focused on your grievances.
By the way, do you know why I am talking like this to you now? Because I didn't do when I should have.
I understand frugality, but here is some of what has changed. Frugality can support Christian living. I learned it from Boomers so I'm not mad. I want to give back and explain what I know.
Housing: There's a new housing restriction compared to your examples. Lead paint was restricted in 1978. Somewhere in the 90s lead was taken out of gasoline, which shows an awareness about lead. Merely ugly starter homes were revealed as unsafe for families. Settling would be irresponsible because lead poisoning is not reversible.
Then starter homes stopped being profitable for builders so there are very few. Some places are 55+ and ban children to help communities plan schools, which is fine to a degree but removes options.
That all was the situation before housing costs skyrocketed with COVID.
Cars: Airbags and the addition of computers increased car prices in the 90s. Cars are more complicated for emissions standards but that is harder to fix things independently. If you live in an apartment complex, the lease may forbid doing any kind of car maintenance in the parking lot, so no changing your own oil.
Insurance: All kinds have gotten more complicated, and some people end up not feeling ease or protection because they can only afford the base plan for any given type of insurance.
I really wonder, do you use spreadsheets? Are you mildly comfortable or very comfortable? If you are very comfortable, have you helped any young person with their budget spreadsheet? That could be part of the divide.
Spreadsheet experience gives me fear in my heart for young people. If the math isn't working out, it is best to face it of course and try to do something like move home or get other family help, but with people moving away for jobs, some people will have a hard time.
Young people who face financial constraints by downgrading their situation to something like too many roommates are going to feel it acutely. They won't feel that they have the American dream. If they don't see a way to get there, then that is awful hard.
Thank you for explaining this to me. Yes, I see that.
I was a school finance analyst in my working life, so, yes I do understand spreadsheets and have always kept my own budget. I would love to help a young person to figure this out, but my grandchildren are all accountants and don't need my help and I don't know of any place that would want my help. But there's help out there. Dave Ramsey is one good source, there are others. But that's too much about me, and we're talking about you.
But in answer to your question, I am comfortable, mainly because I worked for government, have a reliable pension and have always been frugal and generally stayed out of debt. I also have good health insurance.
I know pensions have gone by the wayside and that your generation mostly won't have them. I would tell you that this is actually good for your generation because there was a time when companies were raiding pension funds (which the courts decided belonged to the companies, not the workers) and retirees would suddenly get cut off. Your 401Ks (or whatever they are now) belong only to you.
Yes, we enjoyed a lot and and we essentially broke the bank for your generation. That was unforgivable, nevertheless, fairly or not, it will be up to your generation to deal with that. The question is will you have the will to do what it takes, since the current Congress abdicated its responsibility ages ago and that's why we are in this fix.
Social security has to be fixed. Right now it is a massive transfer of wealth from your generation to ours. It is, indeed, a Ponzi scheme no matter how many people try to argue that it is not. Personally, I would start by recalculating the basis for cost of living increases and graduate any increases based on income. Not because it would solve much, but because it is low-hanging fruit. Yes, it would cut my social security and I sure enjoy spending it, but this is unsustainable. After that, I don't have a fix, I'm not smart enough. Unfortunately, this will be up to you as well.
Entitlement spending. Again, we screwed you. The only way the budget will be balanced is to cut entitlement spending. Again, it's going to be up to you. If you actually want to fix things, you can't be electing Democratic Socialists (using the collective you, not the "you" you).
Power: Time will take care of our monopoly on power. But you should start preparing, if you are not already doing so. Run for school board and city council. Get known. Then move up to the state legislature and maybe even higher. The old people keep getting elected because people know their names and have amassed a lot of political power.
I'll give you an anecdote: In my job, I often had to go to to legislative hearings to monitor what was happening with education finance related bills. At one hearing, the first order of business was interviewing recent nominees to a government board. Two of the people (my generation) were from the corporate world and were clearly connected in politics. One was a college student who has been nominated for a student seat. The "grown-ups" acted entitled, they knew this was a slam dunk, they didn't say too much. The college student was prepared. He didn't assume anything and treated the proceeding with the seriousness it deserved. Keep on being like him and try not to get cynical and jaded.
Insurance: too many people misunderstand insurance and nowhere is that more evident than in health insurance. One problem is that the government keeps requiring that basic services be covered. The issue is that it is an oxymoron for insurance to cover basic services. Its purpose is to cover unusually expensive circumstances. What would happen if we required auto insurance to pay for oil changes? You're right about the cars. I have a 2014 Rav4 with 110,000 miles. I've taken care of it and it should last at least another 100,000 miles. This is good, since even the price of used cars is now prohibitive.
Also, climate change (which is real but which is not going to destroy the planet and wipe out humans). But homeowners insurance is going to be increasingly difficult, if not impossible to get.
Housing: this goes up and down. The interest rate on my first house was an 8.5% ARM. The moment I could, I refinanced. I wouldn't take out an ARM now, it's too risky. The biggest barrier to buying a home is the down payment.
You know all this, you don't need me to tell you. But I do understand more than you might think.
I guess the point of my other posts, while perhaps overwrought, is that adversity is the human condition. So is progress. To be a bit facetious, when I first learned to iron, there was no such thing as a steam iron. Now, nobody irons.
Every generation has its hardships. And, generally speaking, young and old have never really been able to talk to each other about these things. I get how we screwed you, but its hard to talk about because we're both right from our perspectives and it can get touchy.
But we did a lot of good too, good that you benefit from. Civil rights. Women's rights (I was always asked in interviews if I was pregnant or planned to be pregnant. You can't ask that anymore. I was not allowed to have a credit card in my own name. I didn't get any paid maternity leave and employers didn't want to hear about child care issues.) Health care and technology. My mother had twin babies in the sixth month and they died. My daughter had twin babies in the sixth month and they are now 22 years old,
So, back to the point I got clobbered on: Get to work. Solve your problems. You are not as unique as you seem to believe you are and you are way smarter and more capable than you seem to think you are. What is happening to you is life. Sometimes it sucks. But it's all we have.
I've had a lot of hardships in my life. But I wouldn't change a thing.
I hope I have not fallen into the trap of solipsism with this post. If I have, I apologize. It's sort of a characteristic of old people, regardless of generation.
And thank you for explaining. I had promised myself that I would get out of the business of commenting, but I really did appreciate your post and I hope my comment conveys that.
Mary Jo,
I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I can see this touches something deep for you.
I need to be honest though, I think we're talking past each other in a way that proves the original article's point, and I don't think continuing will help either of us.
You've asked me personal questions about my car, my holidays, whether I shop at charity shops. But that's exactly the issue. When someone shows you data about how the entire economic structure has shifted, responding with "but have you tried buying second-hand furniture?" isn't engaging with what they're saying. It's deflecting from the systemic to the personal.
You've acknowledged the mess your generation is leaving, which I genuinely appreciate. But in the same breath, you've called younger people whiners who are waiting for elves to solve their problems. That's not acknowledgement, that's dismissal with a bit of rhetorical cover.
The really telling bit is this: you've said I demand you understand me whilst having no wish to understand you. But Mary Jo, I've spent this entire conversation trying to understand your perspective and explain mine in return. You've spent it asking me about my car and telling me to listen to Charlie Kirk.
I don't think you're a bad person. I think you've lived through real hardship and found ways to overcome it, and that's genuinely admirable. But the inability to separate "I struggled and succeeded" from "therefore the system is fine and anyone who struggles is just not trying hard enough" - that's the solipsism Aaron's writing about.
I'm not waiting for your generation to die out. I'm not even particularly angry. Mostly I'm just sad that we can't seem to have this conversation without it turning into mutual recriminations.
I hope you find peace with all this. I really do. But I won't be responding further, not out of anger, but because I don't think we're getting anywhere, and life's too short to spend it shouting into the void.
Take care,
Alastair
So be it.